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Nick Politis - A Rooster for life

UGoodthings

UGoodthings

Stuart webb, Simon Bonetti, Peter Cussack, Ian Ruben, Skinny Byrnes. None of these guys would have been on big money. 
buzz07

buzz07

We squared off in the 2003 semi final with the same teams from 2002, Roosters 28 to Bulldogs 18. 
alchemist

alchemist

unsubstantiated rumours mean nothing IMO 
buzz07

buzz07

Theres a rumor that the Dragons were over the cap in 2009-2010. 
alchemist

alchemist

and we played twice in the regular season that year for 2 Dogs wins, although granted the Roosters were very depleted for one of the games... the Dogs also beat the Roosters in their only clash in 2002

as for the 2003 Prelim Final, the Roosters played better, tougher football and deserved the win... was disappointed with Folkes' team selections for that game though with, for example, Glen Hughes chosen ahead of the likes of Asotasi, Feeney and Grimaldi 
professional

professional

If a club like Melbourne has overpaid a player though isn't that their own fault? They have to wear that and only they suffer in the end.

Although I think I may be misunderstanding your point. 
RoostarGirl

RoostarGirl

Not only that, someone like Mini for example was just building a name for himself, only made origin in 03. It is easy to look back now and say our team was over the cap. 
RoostarGirl

RoostarGirl

You were better on the day, I've never questioned that, but it doesn't take away what happened from the previous yrs and your club deciding which players can take paycuts and stay on, it doesn't work like that and that was a major advantage to your side, you can't deny that. 
alchemist

alchemist

fair enough, if a club deliberately breaches the cap and pays Player X a sum which exceeds what he can earn on the free market, i can understand the argument that the club should not be able to simply cut his pay to help bring the club within the salary cap

but it definitely complicates the issue if for no other reason than whether a club has actually received an on field advantage... for example, Anasta was only in his 2nd full season of FG in '02 but the Dogs were already paying him $400K+ a season... was he worth that money at that time? at a time when the cap was $3.25 million and an average yearly wage was $130K, both Glen and Corey Hughes were earning close to $200K a season... was there another club willing to pay such money for them?

the other issue for me is that if you fix the sum that the offending club was paying a player as the sum that he would get paid after that - whether he stayed or left, you are taking away from that player the freedom to renegotiate his deal as he sees fit... for example, we have seen countless players take less money to stay with a club and ease salary cap pressure and we have seen plenty look elsewhere when they weren't prepared to take a paycut (Lazarus being a good example when he left the Raiders) 
alchemist

alchemist

didn't the Storm decide which players can stay on and which could leave?

the only difference i can see is that the players at Canterbury took an 8% paycut (if i remember correctly) for the '03 season which then was paid to them as bonuses should they have reached the finals that year and then would count to the following season's cap

that is why there was considerable change between the '02 and '04 teams 
UGoodthings

UGoodthings

Thats pretty dodge. 
HeadlessChook

HeadlessChook

Considerable change....

2002 team
Patten
El Masri
Vagana
Talau
Utai
Anasta
Sherwin
O'Meley
C Hughes
S Price
Mason
Smith
Norton

Reardon
Thurston
Grimaldi
Perry

2004 team
Patten
El Masri
Harris
Tonga
Utai
Anasta
Sherwin
O'Meley
Perry
Price
Mason
Ryan
Matuia

Thurston
Asotasi
SBW
C Hughes

I don't really consider that to 'considerable' change. You lost a couple of centres and a back rower and picked up a current Origin back rower in to the bargain. 
alchemist

alchemist

Vagana (Test Rep, multiple Dally M Centre of the Year), Talau (Test Rep), Trindall (who was getting a $50K top up on his contract in 2002), Norton (Origin Rep), Rauhihi (Test Rep, subsequently Dally M Prop of the Year), Darren Smith (Origin and Test Rep), Reardon and Howland all moved on or retired

Harris, Asotasi, Utai and Thurston were all fresh out of Jersey Flegg when they debuted in '02 and only Utai had an extended run... all 4 would play in the GF in '04

Ryan signed on for the 2003 season and was allowed to back out of his contract once the breaches were discovered... he chose not to and thus, i do not see how that is relevant AFTER the scandal occurred... unless of course your argument is that we were over the cap in '04 as well

SBW, Maitua and Tonga all debuted with the club in 2004

Grimaldi became first pick lock after we lost Travis Norton

not an overhaul, but there was significant change to the Dogs teams during the 2 years between the scandal and the '04 GF 
HeadlessChook

HeadlessChook

If you are going to include the fringe or depth players then yes there's a lot of change. But there was very little change to your top 17. 
alchemist

alchemist

Vagana, Talau, Norton and Darren Smith were all starters for the club in 2002... the likes of Rauhihi and Reardon were also regulars in the top 17 having played 23 and 19 games respectively... Trindall lost his spot to Sherwin in 2002 but was the first pick halfback for much of 2001 and thus, he was a player that was getting a top up in payments

and there were other fringe players that also left the club between 2002 and 2004... for example, Shane Marteene, Glen Hall and Todd Polglase all signed with the Rabbits in 2003 
RoostarGirl

RoostarGirl

Losing those guys was a small cost to keeping your other players, those players you kept were seen as the long term future of the club. 
alchemist

alchemist

i think you are giving the Dogs management more credit than they were due as to our long term vision --> Thurston and Price signed with other clubs in 2004, Anasta signed with the Roosters in '05 for the '06 season, Asotasi and Myles signed elsewhere in 2006, O'Meley signed with the Roosters and Sherwin and Mason were released at the end of 2007, Harris was released in 2005, Lolesi signed with the Tigers after 2005 etc.

in fact, so poor was our long term vision that instead of capitalising on such a young, dominant team that won in '04, we were wooden spooners and league embarrassments by 2008 
slip

slip

Wasn't the problem the salary cap? The Bulldogs developed those players, but as soon as the Dogs won the comp in 04, everyone was interested in those players which raised their value, but under the cap you can only spend so much. I remember Steve Folkes complaining about that. 
TS_Quint

TS_Quint

Ah, the good old days. 
alchemist

alchemist

yes and no... there is no doubt that we successfully brought thru quite a few players that were then targeted by other clubs and signed elsewhere... and there was a certain lack of luck on the part of the Dogs management in that the players that they looked to secure long term (eg. Mason, SBW, Sherwin) proved bad bets and were subsequently released

even so, the Dogs management those years left quite a bit to be desired and Dogs fans now look upon Thurston for example and think about what could have been... in other words, you have to lose some players, no doubt... but we seemed to have lost nearly everyone of value and imploded so quickly 
alchemist

alchemist

i have watched the Dogs for the better part of 3 decades and the 2008 team was by far the most embarrassing fielded by the club 
buzz07

buzz07

Don't worry 2 much about it we all have bad years, souffs just seem 2 have them all the time. 
Greedz

Greedz


Send me a ticket and I'll gladly sit in the middle of you hotdog smuggling jokes. You big hero you.

It will look cool when I'm the only person standing amongst a sea of toothless lol@souffs fans facepalming themselves after we pass the 40 mark. 
MrChook

MrChook

Careful, the Gobbledock might give you the finger.
http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/855/rabbitohs.jpg 
knitey

knitey

See the guy whose face is near the yobs elbow, that looks like Sonic? 

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