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American pschopaths continue to mass murder .......

MrFourex

MrFourex

sigh ........well, you f*cken added it into your list of things America needed to address didn't you?

What's so hard about admitting you have changed your mind. Grow up.......you've been arse hurt about this for the last two days!! 
professional

professional

And the armed guards will be equipped with? 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Knives.... 
professional

professional

Nothing, I'm just not going to do it when I haven't. Particularly not just because you want to have your opinion validated.

We've reached slightly similar conclusions based on completely different reasoning. My differences of opinion with you are every bit as strong as at the start. 
professional

professional

I probably would have gone for bear arms but I guess that could work ... 
MrFourex

MrFourex

:lol: .......bear arms is better. 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Yeah....whatever. :rolls: 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Why not start with the easiest and cheapest? Particularly when it is something that can be done now, that will make a significant difference. Sometimes the cheapest and simplest methods are the best way to go.

During the race to put a man in space, NASA spent millions developing a pen that would operate reliably in zero gravity, the Russians used a pencil.

The other points you mention whilst valid and admirable as aspirational goals, will take decades to really make a difference, but that doesn't mean I advocate ignoring them.

The reality is the US simply can't afford to address the issues they have with mental health, hell, our health care system is so much better and we don't have the money. 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Short answer .....yes. It may at least hinder the nutjobs gaining access into the school grounds in the first place. Lot of schools to cover .......

sounds expensive.

What's next though?

Office buildings......sports arenas .......hospitals....etc etc etc

Where does it stop?

The NRA still has to submit to some form of gun legislation.....whether they like it or not. Their proposal isn't and can't be looked as the only answer. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

There was an armed Sheriifs deputy on duty at Columbine. Result 12 Dead.

Whilst this pecker head was making his speech, four people were killed and three state troopers wounded in Pennsylvania. The shooter was shot whilst trying to make his get away.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-shooting-pennsylvaniabre8bk0y5-20121221,0,3230793.story

The NRA's argument is tried, tested, and has been found to be fundamentally flawed. It fails to address the issue in any meaningful way, and is akin to attempting to fix a gunshot wound with a band aid. 
Lewis06

Lewis06

wtf :popcorn: 
Maximus89

Maximus89

Gun laws are neither the easiest, nor the cheapest. Look at the NRA who said they would discuss the situation, and then their solution was to increase the amount of guns. Laws will be incredibly difficult to pass. Then you've got to remove the guns from circulation, and buy back any banned weapons (otherwise what is the point in doing it in the first place). There is no quick and easy way no matter how much you and Senor want there to be. 
MrFourex

MrFourex

:rolls: 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Agreed, I guess I was thinking it might act as a deterrent. In the case of Columbine it appears not, although at that point in time you would have to consider just how "serious" the campus security actually was.

An interesting note whilst on the Columbine massacre, is that one of the killers was seeing a psychiatrist for depression and suicidal thoughts. He was prescribed 2 different types of medication and both of those were later argued to have attributed to his mental condition at the time of the massacre. Both medications had side effects of aggression, loss of remorse, depersonalization, and mania.

It would appear that even then the mental health system in America was lacking the proper funding to conduct trials on medications to document their adverse affects. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

I disagree, firstly, there is a mood for change, how strong that is will be tested, but the fact is they have passed restrictions before, so there is no rational argument to say they cannot do it again. Many previously pro gun senators are coming out of the woodwork and saying they have changed their position, and now see the need.

In terms of cost, it's a no brainer, even the cost of a full blown buy back pales into insignificance as compared to addressing mental health, or placing armed guards in schools. As both of those are an ongoing and there fore increasingly expensive as time goes on.

There is a difference between quick and easy, which is not the claim I made , and easiest and simplest, which is the one I did. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

One of the problems is the constitution. So hard to change.

Like getting rid of George Piggins.

Think it needs a 2/3 majority in both houses and 75 % of the states. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

That's true, but it doesn't really need to be changed. It's passing the hurdles of the supreme court that are important. The judges of which are political appointments.

After all , there is all sorts of arms that are Illegal for US citizens to bear. 
MrChook

MrChook

100 shot dead in the week since the Sandy Hook killings...

http://www.news.com.au/world/obama-vows-action-after-online-petition/story-fndir2ev-1226542151230 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

All reports I have seen, the Judges reinforce the right.

Still, if that is all it takes, take it to the supreme court.

As I said before, I am not sure how they should go about fixing the problem but I think it will take more than a trip to court.

And as for your last statement. Nit picking. I don't care. They have the right to bear some arms and that may be too much.

I don't know why you just like to argue, I am on the same side. Change the constitution, get the supreme court on side. IT WILL BE BLOODY HARD and as I said. ONE of the problems.

No, I am not a constitutional lawyer but, unlike some, I am able to see peoples points.

No wonder I dropped off this thread. 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Step1. Banning military-style assault rifles and high-capacity ammunition clips. It would would also close loopholes that allow people to purchase guns without background checks.

Step2. Improving access to mental health care,

Step3. Addressing depictions of violence in popular culture 
bandwagon

bandwagon

It's a discussion Les, I think it has actually ended in quite a bit of agreement. And I wasn't attempting to nit pick as you put it.

My point was that the 2nd amendment has in the past been ruled to have limitations, it doesn't provide for the free for all many believe it does.

Yes, it would require constitutional change to ban all fire arms, but I thought we'd gone past that, in both practical and ideological terms, I referred to the hurdle being the Supreme court, because any legislation they pass is open to challenge there once enacted or enforced.

As you said none of us are constitutional lawyers, and even if we were, there would be dissent as to what would and would not pass muster, as there is amongst Justices of the court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Supreme_Court_cases

Gives a little insight into the workings. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

Damn, and I just checked the spelling of sanctimonious. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Hopefully common sense will prevail. It seems so simple in context, although I'm sure not in application. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

You checked it last off season. Perhaps I should endeavour to provide you more opportunity for it's use.

Just so as you don't forget.. 
HarrySack

HarrySack

I was summarising sweet cheeks. Senor and Forex seemed, to me anyway, to be arguing over the degree to which mental illness is involved. Regarding my "Sometimes" comment, I should have made that clearer. I'll clarify: what I meant was, people who do these sorts of things don't always exhibit symptoms/behaviors prior to the event. Eg. The guy at school who's picked on and thinks throwing kittens onto the highway is a fun activity, is going to set off more alarm bells than the overworked/underpaid employee who goes to work and just snaps one day. 

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