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American pschopaths continue to mass murder .......

HarrySack

HarrySack

The problem is multifaceted. There is no singular solution. A holistic approach needs to be taken 
Morkel

Morkel

I haven't followed this thread and have only just read the first page, but Les, have you stopped to think about your own situation? You obviously treat shooting as an interest and a hobby, and you have every right to that. But how many people know about it? Is it just your immediate family, your extended family, did any of your kids friends ever know? All it takes is one of these people, of which you can never know really who they are, to have in the back of their mind that they know a house where a gun is. I'm sure you're incredibly safe with it, but I am equally sure that there are many like you who aren't so anal.

My next question is whether shooting is purely a hobby or you use it for other reasons? I know you live out somewhere in my general proximity so I know that there is everything from foxes to wild boars out there.

My point is, if you need a gun for reasons of safety, and I don't mean capping crack-ho thieves, I mean in a rural/farm setting, there should be a strict permit with an initial inspection and regular audits. Otherwise, if it's purely a hobby, any gun should not be allowed in a house. They should be locked up at whatever shooting range you belong to or at whatever club you belong to, with a strict register of signing them in & out for short periods (covering to, during & back from the range only) and that's it. 
slip

slip

It's in the constitution, the right to bear arms. That's a concern! 
professional

professional

I think the real concern is that the US seems to hold the view that a document written by a group of rich, white men for a confederation of 13 states is still applicable 236 years later for a country of 300 million.

I'm certain that the founding fathers were very intelligent people with good intentions but they weren't fortune tellers. If someone stood up today and claimed that current government legislation should and will still be relevent in 200 years they would be considered completely daft. 
Morkel

Morkel

The think it applies because they want it to apply. That's the problem. 
professional

professional

It isn't just an issue with gun control though, it is an attitude that pervades their politics. The Democrats have used the Declaration of Independence extensively to push through a lot of their legislation on civil rights, health care and the like.

Since all sides use the Declaration to base their policies and argue their case it is extremely difficult to then turn around and object to the Second Amendment. 
MrFourex

MrFourex

or insane..... 
Marcus1979

Marcus1979

I heard the bill in USA banning the use of semi-automatics expired in 2004.

Is it coincidence it coincided with bush years? 
professional

professional

Nah, if thinking or believing stupid things meant that a person was insane then you'd be a raving lunatic. 
professional

professional

Yeah it lapsed under the Bush administration and Congress seemed pretty uninterested in extending it at the time. 
BuckinBronco

BuckinBronco

They were visionaries. Way ahead of their time. Well that's what the NRA say. 
Maximus89

Maximus89

Pfft who are you to disagree with the self-claimed expert on everything, Senor? 
professional

professional

Think I made it quite clear that I'm not an expert on mental health issues. Nor do I disagree with Harry Sack. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

The dude in Norway, Anders whatsisface, killed 77 people, apparently he's sane, who'd of thunk it? 
Marcus1979

Marcus1979

don't shoot the messenger this is a genuine question.... Is it co-incidence that in most cases those involved in massacres are later reported to have either mental issues or have been subjected to extreme amounts of bullying at school. 
Marcus1979

Marcus1979

On case of gun control if gun controls are so strict why has there been a spate of drive by shootings in western Suburbs of Sydney this year. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Has there been? More than last year or the year before?

But really, gun laws don't make it impossible to procure a firearm, it just makes it harder and more expensive, and more time consuming, so if one bunch of crims need guns to do whatever the **** they do they will get them.

But these are very different to the kind of shootings we are discussing here, your local drug dealer aint going to shoot up the local primary school, because there is nothing in it for them. It serves no purpose. 
Marcus1979

Marcus1979

Based on a article I was reading in the telegraph other day.... I guess that was my mistake :lol:

Point Taken Bangwagon haha 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Nahh......you stupid moron marcus, it's not a mental issue.

Senor said so.....pay attention. :rolls: 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Very different. Sure Australia (particularly Sydney with it's crime ridden ghettos) has "shootings" per se..........so it's not that hard to get your hands on a gun if you want. But it appears as though the mind set or the mental health of the average Australian is very different to the average American.

Illegal gun use in Australia seems for the most part to be contained to squabbles amongst crime gangs or opportunistic financial gain. Mass shootings of random innocent people is rare. Without searching, off the top of my head Port Arthur is the only one in Australia ...I think?

..........didn't he have mental health problems as well? 
knitey

knitey

Yes, multiple disorders, is kept in isolation in the physch ward at Risdon Prison. 
professional

professional

It is a very reasonable question to ask and a rather hard one to answer.

Mental health is very subjective and the reality is that a vast majority of people could be "diagnosed" with a mental illness.

Look at a lot of the stuff that these people are diagnosed with: they were bullied at school, or were lonely, or suffered anxiety or depression. That could easily describe 90% of the world's population at various stages of their life.

In countries like Australia and the US, people are getting diagnosed with depression when isn't necessarily legitimate. After all you expect to feel depressed after your marriage fails or you lose your job or even other minor problems but that doesn't mean you have clinical depression. As a whole these problems are misunderstood, which leads to some diagnosis for patients.

I guess the rather convoluted point I'm trying to make is that it is easy to diagnose most people with a mental illness if you want. It doesn't actually mean they have one or (more importantly) that it actually has any significant effect on their behaviour or decision making.

(The same is true in the opposite direction, many people go undiagnosed because they don't want to or because it isn't very obvious)

Some of these murderers are legitimately mentally ill, others might be (but it isn't clear) and there are some who aren't. As soon as you do something like a mass murder people will attribute it to mental illness because it is an easy explanation. However, that doesn't mean it is true or (more importantly) that it was necessarily the driving factor.

Many of these people functioned within society for a long time and proved to be quite smart. Autism or depression don't inhibit someone so much that they can't see the difference between right and wrong when it comes to murdering 27 people in cold blood. These aren't people "snapping" as a result of their mental illness. I think this has a lot more to do with conscious decision-making on the part of the individual than most people would like to admit. 
Lewis06

Lewis06

Call me naive but anyone who goes on a shooting rampage has to a degree some sort of mental issue, be it permanent or temporary.

But alas, this is not the issue, it is allowing the person access to weapons.

Tighter controls = less shootings, it's simple really...

On a side note the NRA has now taken down its facebook page........guilty consciences perhaps? 
bandwagon

bandwagon

The only official public statement the NRA has made at this stage is that they will seek to work with lawmakers to work towards ensuring this will not happen again, they indicated also they would issue a a more specific statement later on this week.

There have been plentiful reports coming out of the states that previously pro gun politicians are ready to support more restrictions, such as the lapsed ban on assault weapons.

The NRA has approximately 3 million members, it would seem they have wielded an inordinate amount of influence relative to their size, perhaps there is a window of opportunity here for the Yanks to actually do something while the public mood is amenable to it. 
saints

saints

Yes - gun controls mean less deaths. It might not mean less guns or no more murders / catastrophes, but it means less deaths in general - in the general public arena.

Access to guns by those who should not have it is the prime reason for the killings. Guns in the right hands are generally OK. 

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