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American pschopaths continue to mass murder .......

HarrySack

HarrySack

WTF is a pschopath anyway? 
MrFourex

MrFourex

An American ..... 
MrFourex

MrFourex

with a mental health problem 
professional

professional

1. This means nothing without a comparison to other nations.
2. The kinds of mental health disorders studied here all all encompassing; anxiety, depression, substance use. Next to none of those people are threats to anyone in society. Contrary to what you think, people with mental health issues aren't Rainman or Hannibal Lector, they are quite normal.
3. Reports studying the prevalence of mental health issues are very hard to draw conclusions from:
 
professional

professional

Courtesy of lovely, understanding individuals such as Mr Fourex. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

Not sure if it's a mental health issue as we know it. More a mental issue with regard to their upbringing.

The fact that the gun stores had their best day in 16 years or so right after the shooting speaks volumes. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

I expected that before 100 posts. :lol: 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Lol........:lol: 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Spelling Nazis unite...... 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

C'mon Sonny. 100 posts is a good run . :lol: 
professional

professional

Are you really that clueless? Statistics have no basis unless there is a means of comparison, otherwise they are arbitrary figures plucked out of the aether. If you want to claim America has a mental health issue then obviously the comparison should be against the rest of the world.

Come back when you have a basic understanding of mental health disorders, statistics and how scientific reporting is done. Intellectually you are completely out of your league right now.

Have you actually read the report you are quoting? 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Now where's that post where I was describing smug arrogant wankers.......did I include you soap dodgers as well ??? 
HarrySack

HarrySack

:lol: I've been waiting and waiting and finally snapped. 
professional

professional

Whatever. I'm fine with being smug or arrogant or a wanker and I'm even fine with a weak shot at my nationality. It will not change the fact that you're embarrassing yourself with this feeble attempt at understanding mental health and how it relates to this tragedy.

Stick to the Bullring and baiting NSWelshmen, its what you're good at. 
Lewis06

Lewis06

...:lol: 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

Do you know that at the moment there are working handguns in Australia available to anyone that wants to pay, that do not require a licence? 
professional

professional

Those are just ones provided by a club presumably though. I would presume they are pretty secure and its unlikely someone can go on a rampage with one of those.

I know in order to legally purchase a handgun a person had to join an approved gun club and then wait at least half a year (while being part of the club) before the were allowed to purchase a handgun. As well as having a Firearm License. 
MrFourex

MrFourex

You mean because they don't suit your argument?

A country that has more mass killings/shootings than any other country in the world.....more serial killers than any other country in the world ........more wacky behaviour (cept maybe the Japanese) than any other country in the world and has self diagnosed itself with 1 in 2 of it's citizens suffering from some form of mental disease ......how can you honestly say that America's failing mental health is inconsequential in relation to this tragedy at Connecticut? 
professional

professional

1. Turn on the news some time. Ever heard of Mexico, Brazil or in fact anywhere in Africa that suffers from civil strife. Most mass killings my arse.

Among developed, stable nations I have no doubt that it probably leads the way, however, I think the more logical conclusion to draw from that is that the high number of firearms is to blame rather than mental health issues.

2. There is very little to support this claim. The number of "serial killers" has as much to do with the reporting of crime and the strength of the police as it does with the actual quantity of murderers. Serial killers exist all around the globe and it is extremely likely that in places in South America or India or the Middle East that crimes like that go largely unreported or never get associated to one "serial" killer.

The fact that the US leads the way just indicates that the phenomena is better documented, you can't draw those kind of conclusions when there isn't sufficient data from elsewhere in the world.

3. Wacky behaviour? Completely subjective. And as for the rates of mental health issues, as I said before you are drawing conclusions from data for which I doubt you know the methodology of or the accuracy or relevance.

But tbh, the easiest answer and the most obvious answer is that correlation does not imply causality. One of the single greatest challenges in scientific or medical research is determining causality.

The idea that a guy - who thought 89% of Americans owned a gun - has managed to determine the answer to a question that professionals struggle to deal with every day is not likely. I can't honestly say there is a relation because I think there needs to be proof, rather than just the conjecture of an internet "expert". 
MrFourex

MrFourex

So amongst your rampant pseudo intellect you find there is no relation to poor mental health being a factor with someone who goes into a school and kills 20 innocent children aged between 5 & 10 yrs old?

or someone who walks into a movie theatre and kills 12 innocent people?

or someone walks into a beauty salon and randomly kills 8 people?

or someone walks into a Korean spa and kills 5 people?

or ...........

Yeah...ok. They're just "normal" people

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv332/mojosphotos/crazy-sign-smiley-emoticon.gif 
Lewis06

Lewis06

Whether or not a person who chooses to murder or mass murder with guns is mentally stable or not is not the point, the point is gun control and access to guns.

Yes anyone can wig out but it is the ease with which they can get their hands on an assault rifle or hand gun that is the problem in the US. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

No. Anyone can walk in off the street without a licence and buy one.

When the new Qld laws come out in 2013, they can do the same, but will have to register it.

Bit of an anomaly. These guns can kill, but they are single shot. 
professional

professional

The majority of them are. You need to drag your views on mental health out of the 19th century. 
professional

professional

Worth a read:

http://www.disabilityandrepresentation.com/2012/12/15/when-children-die-grieve-reflect-dont-scapegoat/ When Children Die, Itís Time to Grieve and to Reflect, Not to Scapegoat

http://www.disabilityandrepresentation.com/2012/12/15/when-children-die-grieve-reflect-dont-scapegoat/ Link

Yesterday morning in Newtown, Connecticut, a young man murdered 20 children at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, along with six adults, having already killed his own mother. When I saw the news, I broke down and cried. All I could say, over and over, was Why would anyone kill little children? How could anyone do such evil?

Yes, Iím using the word evil. I canít think of any word that even comes close to describing the actions of someone who is so angry, so desperate, and so full of self-pity that he decides to take 20 children with him. And really, there is no answer to the question of why. Sometimes, people do evil because they can, because they decide to discard their moral compass, because they decide to inflict pain.

But of course, we live in a society in which simply saying that evil is afoot doesnít cut it anymore. We want answers. We want control. We want it fixed. So we make it a sickness, because we hope that someday sickness will have a cure.

And so we find scapegoats. When another atrocity happens, we hear people say that the shooter must have been mentally ill. We hear people say that the shooter must have had autism. In this case, the media is engaging in scapegoating both groups: more than one news outlet has reported that the shooter was both mentally ill and autistic, as though being mentally ill and autistic were an explanation for killing 27 people.

Yes, itís happening again. Itís becoming predictable. In the past 24 hours, I have been involved in discussions in which people have not only engaged in the usual He must have been mentally ill speculations, but have also said that because autistic people have meltdowns, itís plausible that the shooter simply had a meltdown.

Letís get something straight right now. Autistic people have meltdowns because their sensory systems get overloaded and it hurts more than anyone who has never experienced it could understand. And yes, sometimes, people strike out in the course of a meltdown. Not always, but sometimes. Often, they strike out at themselves. And when they do strike out, itís a spontaneous act. Itís a neurological response that is not even remotely close to premeditating a murder.

People in the midst of a meltdown do not take the time and the forethought to arm themselves with a bullet-proof vest and several weapons, make their way to an elementary school, and consciously target two particular classrooms of children and the school office. In fact, most people in the midst of a meltdown just want to withdraw and get away from people and the stressors that cause overload.

Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again: Autism is not a predisposing factor to premeditated violence. Autistic people are far, far more likely to be the victims of crime than its perpetrators.
And the same goes for mental illness. Most mentally ill people do not harm anyone and are at much greater risk of being the victims of violence.

If you must ask the question of why, take a look at what all the school shooters have in common: they are young men. Of course, simply being a man does not predispose anyone to violence. But perhaps the fact that we equate manhood with power and domination in our society does. Maybe, just maybe, we need to separate violence from the definition of being a man. Maybe, just maybe, we need to start looking at the way that we glorify violence among men.

Thatís not scapegoating. Thatís taking a good look at we do, as a culture, to make it more likely that people choose evil.

Scapegoating innocent, vulnerable groups of disabled people ó people with autism, people with mental illness ó is irresponsible. It has the potential to wreak havoc in the lives of people who are already struggling against stigma and exclusion.

So letís do some self-reflection as a culture. Letís look at what weíre communicating to our young men about what it means to be a man.

And when we do, letís leave disabled people out of it. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

Good article.

Sometimes people snap.

By now I suppose everyone has seen the road rage incident up here.

He really lost it and one wonders what would have happened had he be armed. 

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