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American pschopaths continue to mass murder .......

professional

professional

It made a huge amount of sense:



But note the condition for why the right to bear arms should be maintained; to maintain a militia. The US has a standing, professional army now so the Second Amendment is largley redundant. 
Maximus89

Maximus89

Turns out the mother was crazy as well. No surprise how the son turned out then.


Isn't the National Guard a militia? 
HarrySack

HarrySack

I take your point but surely it wouldn't be a BAD step to make assault rifles less accessible. 
Maximus89

Maximus89

Yeah of course. Personally I think all semi-automatics should be banned. I don't see the point of a member of the public holding an assault rifle at all, but apparently they hunt with them :S 
professional

professional

Of sorts but tbh I suspect the percentage of gun owners in the US who are active or past members of the National Guard is low. 
MrFourex

MrFourex

Mental health issues .......America's appalling social welfare system combined with what....88.8% of Americans owning firearms??

It's a wonder this sort of shit isn't happening every 2nd day. 
professional

professional

93% of all statistics are made up on the spot. 
Marcus1979

Marcus1979

I can't imagine people with criminal records volunteering guns to authorities. What will happen is the ordinary citizens will hand in their guns and then guns will be left in hands of police and criminals.

Despite guns being illegal in Australia we still hear about gun crimes.

Not saying Gun bans are a bad idea but more needs to be done than just banning firearms. 
professional

professional

Far, far fewer though. No system is ever foolproof but some work a lot better than others.

There is a very strong correlation between tighter gun laws and less gun related crime.

The idea that you have to treat the sickness rather than the symptom fails as an analogy in this case because treating the symptom is reasonable effective and much easier than treating the actual sickness.

It is like installing airbags and seat belts in cars. The "sickness" is that people are careless and/or reckless when driving. However, treating the "symptom" by installing safety equipment is much more effective because thousands of years of human history tells us that we can't cure stupidity. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

I must have missed something. When were guns made illegal in Australia? 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Removing legal weapons does go a way's to removing illegal ones

Most every fire arm in the states was at one point legally sold ,bought and owned, just a thought. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

And I see that the gunshops in the US, today had their best sales day in 14 years.

As for legally owned., Almost every firearm in Australia was legally purchased at some time. Not a good argument.

When I was 13, I used to haunt the hock shops for old .22 rifles. Bring them home and strip and re-varnish the stock and flog them for a profit.

Never owned an auto though. Clubs won't allow us to even use a magazine. One shot, then reload. 
HarrySack

HarrySack

Agreed 100% 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

Also interesting to see that the trend in reduction of deaths in Australia is still the same as it was before the buy back.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-deaths-in-rapid-decline-since-buyback/2006/12/13/1165685752421.html

It did bring about a sharp reduction, and then the trend continued. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

Actually there were a lot of people that liked that discipline. Perhaps not a ban, but the firearms of that ilk should be locked in a secure armoury at the club. They would be as safe as military weapons are in their armoury.

No reason to have one at home. 
HarrySack

HarrySack

I got into trouble at a range one day for that very thing. Not a regular shooter at all but I went to the range with a mate one day. He owned an old .303(?) that had a magazine. Anyway, I loaded the magazine and just went for it. Next thing this important looking guy is tapping me on the shoulder yelling. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

Very strict at the range.

I have two Lee Enfield .303. Smellies. SMLE

One sporting and one fully timbered with all the trimmings. 
professional

professional

I think that is all most people want when they ask for stricter gun laws. It isn't about banning everything, it is just about having more sense. Make sure the people who operate them are responsible, place limits on how you can purchase them, store them or carry them etc

Personally I don't see the point of automatic weapons outside the army but I guess if you're a gun enthusiast then you'd see differently. As long as there are effective measures in place I don't have a problem with it.

It isn't members of gun clubs that are the concern for most people. They are quite responsible for the most part. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Kind of reinforces what I'm saying, you change the metrics on the supply side, you have a reflection on demand. The price rises, and the commodity becomes less accessible. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

I spent a lot of time on military bases and could have walked out with any number of their Steyrs. They used to lean them in the corner of the room and go for a shower. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

I have no problem with reasonable firearm laws, but as you acknowledge, there is a bigger problem in the states than here. Non the less, even with a buy back here, there are now more firearms in Australia than in 1996.

The police estimate only 50% of the illegals were handed in in NSW and Qld and more were purchased than handed in. It's a fact, Too much was given for rubbish .22 autos.

Vic had a better hand in. About 65% I think.

It needed better planning and not a rapid knee jerk reaction.

I might mention that the laws never affected me, except I now have to keep bolts and ammo away from the firearms.

As for the price, it is not a problem to those that act outside the law. 
rabbitoh_fan

rabbitoh_fan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Yes, I know it's Wiki, but an easy place to find this data.

It is more than tighter laws. It is a lot of things and I don't know the way out for the US, but a start must be made. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Contrary to the impression I may have given, I don't have an issue with guns in general, I have had some experiences both good and bad, I have enjoyed some hunting, but not so much having had one pointed at me in a threatening manner.

I simply don't see the need for the general public in a nation that is secure in it's governance to own military style weapons, nor the right to own let alone carry handguns of any nature without specific, legal and legitimate purpose. 
professional

professional

:eek: My missus wants to go to South and Central America some day, I'm not showing her that page before we go. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Depends how you define outside the law, I'm certain in incidents like the one we are discussing it would make a difference. Simply because price is a limit on accessibility, and if this guy had of been forced to purchase these weapons on a black market, it would have required more time, money and risk. 

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