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2013 Federal Election

bandwagon

bandwagon

Global car market. we are far from the only ones 
professional

professional

Not a huge fan of the ETS; it allows bigger polluters to avoid structural changes to their industry for much longer. You want to get the big polluters to change first because:

a) They are the biggest polluters (duh)
b) They can manage it best financially
c) They will have the means to spend more on research 
professional

professional

Yeah, happening everywhere. Was in Detroit back in 2008 and it looked like a ghost town. I think a lot of countries need to accept that their car industries don't have the competitive advantage anymore. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

They have, but the subsidies keep innovation and industry flowing, whilst the car makers are more and more reliant upon subsidies, the industry that flows on from that more than makes up for the cost to taxpayers. 
BuckinBronco

BuckinBronco

I didn't construe it that way at all, I knew I would pay the carbon tax. I like most of the population saw through it. That is my point. They treated people like idiots.

WRT to your comment on google results, try harder, or, use your own memory. 
BuckinBronco

BuckinBronco

I don't think anyone has suggested that stunt didn't backfire big time. 
BuckinBronco

BuckinBronco

Car industry is a really bad example from Morkel. It is one of the primary examples of silly govt spending trying to prop upan industry.

edit: I see this obvious point has been made. Sorry for the double up. 
BuckinBronco

BuckinBronco

Great idea. What is the EU Price we will be linked too right now? While still compensating at what price? 
professional

professional

Hmm, I've never really been convinced of that. In principle I agree; however, I haven't seen anything solid about that assumption for the car industry in Australia.

Some agree with you:

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/information-technology/052719-getting-up-to-speed-on-the-benefits-of-car-industry-subsidies.html Getting up to speed on the benefits of car industry subsidies


This is my main problem with subsidies. They are protectionism and are a short-sighted way to be governing. If the R&D justifies the subsidy then that is fine but the car industry should apply for those R&D subsidies on their own merit, which they do not.

I don't believe that the flow-on justifies the subsidies given at all. 
professional

professional

I can't make Google try harder. It doesn't return any direct quotes, nor does my memory. The main line was always that the compensation should offset the majority of price rises. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Although all these arguments conveniently ignore , that as manufacturers our car makers compete against heavily subsidised imports, if our FTA's advocated a tit for tat duty upon subsidised imports, then perhaps they would compete globally.

But here we digress, as this is one of few issues that is truly bi partisan.

@ your prior post 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Great Idea? The one we would now have had Turnbull had his way? 
bandwagon

bandwagon

I don't believe they did, but you would think given the resources available, and the simplicity of a bar graph, it would not have happened at all. 
professional

professional

[QUOTE=bandwagon;1489947]Although all these arguments conveniently ignore , that as manufacturers our car makers compete against heavily subsidised imports, if our FTA's advocated a tit for tat duty upon subsidised imports, then perhaps they would compete globally.[/quote]

Don't think it is ignoring anything. If foreign governments subsidise their industries it doesn't really matter, the end result is still that foreign companies can manufacture cars cheaper so it makes more sense to move to other industries. Introducing a duty is just as you said, a "tit for tat" policy, that is moving backwards further towards protectionism rather than moving forward.

Besides, foreign subsidies only play a small part. They are more competitive because of lower labour costs and more efficient manufacturing processes. 
professional

professional

I do believe reading a bar graph is a skill required to pass high school these days. Should be a requisite skill for any future Prime Minister too. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

I disagree, it is.

Name a country that manufactures cars for our market that are not subsidised in any way?

The only two I can come up with is Germany and Korea, though I am sure of neither. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Wrong again, primary school, he he 
professional

professional

That isn't my point.

I know countries subsidise their car industries. But I don't see why Australia should continue to subsidise its own just to try to compete, especially when we aren't being successful at it anyway. If other countries want to subsidise their industries then let them; best to move on than continue fighting a losing battle. 
BuckinBronco

BuckinBronco

Agreed. 
BringbackBRL

BringbackBRL

Year 3 
BuckinBronco

BuckinBronco

Sorry should have used a sarcasm emoticon. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, thank goodness Turnbull lost the leadership ballot, for as you say we would now have an ETS. I don't think he would have made the fool hardy decision to link us to the EU scheme though. That is the problem I was alluding to. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Sorry, I recognised the sarcasm, emoticons are not necessary, just pointing out it was Liberal party policy, Though whilst it may not have been directly linked to the EU market, a link is inevitable, as we all know we live in a global economy. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Whilst ford has dropped the ball, Holden is as we speak designing some of GM's global platforms, as well as manufacturing vehicles which are sold in the states. We can compete, and we do. 
BuckinBronco

BuckinBronco

Fortunately it is a moot point. For at least the next decade anyway. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

I guess we'll see............

For the record I'm thinking Voters will install Abbott, but as a precaution they will deliver him a hostile senate. 

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