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Manly cleared of any wrongdoing after ASADA meeting

nadyone

nadyone

The Manly Warringah Sea Eagles have been told by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA) that none of the Club’s players, past or present, have tested positive to illegal performance enhancing substances.
Sea Eagles officials, including Club chairman Scott Penn and General Manager Dave Perry attended a meeting today with ASADA and Tony Whitlam QC, who heads the new NRL integrity unit.

“ASADA outlined to Manly and five other NRL clubs the processes it is undertaking as part of its on-going investigation into the use of banned substances in Australian sport,” Mr Perry said.
“We will continue to assist ASADA in its investigation.
“Confidentiality precludes the Sea Eagles from discussing details of that investigation.”

Mr Perry said that Manly had waited until 9.30am today to announce publicly it was named in the Australian Crime Commission report to ensure Mr Penn could brief the full playing squad.
“We thought it only fair that the players be briefed by the Club Chairman before talking to the media,” Mr Perry said.
“Again I must emphasise the Sea Eagles condemn unreservedly any use of illegal performance-enhancing substances by players.”

http://www.seaeagles.com.au/news-display/Sea-Eagles-statement-after-ASADA-meeting/68291 
Marcus1979

Marcus1979

We are all glad manly were cleared. Would of been worse to have more premierships to have a questionmark overhanging them. 
professional

professional

Isn't that a bit misleading considering that much of the current controversy lies around the use of banned peptides, which currently can't be detected using standard tests. I thought that is why ASADA is taking a whole series of samples that they have and sending them to a lab in Germany for testing. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

I heard an interview with a former head of ASADA yesterday. He pointed out that as the testing regime had fallen behind the development of new drugs, they were more and more relying on co operation with other investigative agencies for evidence. Hence we have what we have.

I note Armstrong also did not test positive.

This by no means is to infer any guilt on Manly. Just pointing to the reality of the current state of play as it were. 
Morkel

Morkel

My thought exactly. The fact that none have tested positive using current testing doesn't mean much. Especially as it's been revealed that the cheats are one step ahead of the testers. I guess the next step is if Manly players are caught, they can say 'hey, they were tested and found clean so our responsibility ends there'. Get ready for the clubs to distance themselves from any players busted. 
Lewis06

Lewis06

How is it there is a massive cloud above all the clubs and players at the moment but all of a sudden the sun is shining on Manly?

This release of selected information in dribs and drabs is a joke.

Name the offenders have the dealt with and move on.

Cannot believe this semi-secret circus about drugs in sport has unfolded the way it is. 
nadyone

nadyone

The ACC has stated that any drug cheats will be uncovered after "evidence" is given against them. So, if someone says a certain player has used a banned substance, the ACC can charge that player, stating "word of mouth" is all the evidence they need to charge a player or players. So, hearsay from a "source" is now ample evidence? The charge may be enough to go to court with, but they won't be enough to get a conviction, but it can tarnish or ruin a player or players career. Which in my opinion is total bullshit & clear signs of the ACC acting above the law. 
professional

professional

What a crock of shit.

A drug cheat can be proved by failed drug tests. Or they can be found out by involvements in trafficking banned PEDs (as several athletes around Australia have been in the past). Or they can be proved by the testimonies of colleagues and associates as we saw with Lance Armstrong.

On the last point, ASADA (not the ACC) can try to bring down a player by evidence from other parties that don't include positive tests. But it wouldn't be just some "word of mouth" or "hearsay". It would be multiple testimonies and affidavits that would have to stand up in court. There would be a burden of proof and ASADA would have to prove the charge beyond reasonable doubt. ASADA aren't idiots, they aren't going to press a case unless they think they have a basis.

You're raging against a machine of your own invention here. 
nadyone

nadyone

Ah, no. I'm referring to what the ACC publicly stated. That a single persons statement to them is deemed "evidence" & is therefore enough to charge a player or players. I didn't say anything about convictions. A sworn affidavit is too easy to fake & should not be enough in any court of law to gain a conviction. If tests come up negative or inconclusive, then a "sworn testimony" is irrelevant & therefore not substantial enough to hold any weight in any argument or be considered sufficient enough to warrant a conviction. Read up on everything the ACC has stated before you get on your high horse. Also, Lance Armstrong returned plenty of positive test results for doping. They were just covered up. 
professional

professional

Absolute hearsay. He was revealed as a drug cheat without a single positive drug test as evidence. Whether you believe he tested positive or not is utterly irrelevant. USADA didn't need drug tests to prove their case. 
nadyone

nadyone

I'm simply going on what was released by the ACC.

Also, it's not that I think testimonies should carry no weight. It's just that as far as I'm concerned, unless doping can be confirmed via tests, then a conviction should not follow. You can have 20 people saying Player X used PEDs, but unless the player returns a positive test, stiff shit to the Prosecution.

The fact that Peptides do not show up in any current tests is just perfect for ASADA & the ACC.
If I was a bigot in a wig & the Prosecution for ASADA & the ACC came into my courtroom & said, "Look, we've got X number of players testifying that X number of players have used Peptides, but, here's the thing. We only have their testimony on the matter, we can't actually physically prove it."
I'd laugh them out of court.

This investigation is a joke & shouldn't have been conducted until they had better screening tests that actually show up the presence of Peptides.

Wayne Bennett said it perfectly when he said, "What do we have to confess to?" 
professional

professional

Again, it's good that we have more reasonable and learned people running our courts. If the testimonies are consistent and stand up to examination then they should carry a lot of weight; witness statements and affadavits are a fundamental part of the legal system. Your view on the necessity of positive tests is just a cognitive bias (which is reasonably common these days) towards statistics or science. 
Hancock02

Hancock02

I can't resist it anymore.

- Peptides aren't illegal. Legal in powder/tablet form, illegal (under WADA) if used IV to increase growth hormone outlet.

- Just because you fail a test under WADA or ASADA doesn't mean you're going to jail. I have no idea why people keep talking about jail. Very few people go to jail because most things on the banned list aren't illegal. WADA and ASADA review their banned list on the 1st of January every year and add and take things off.

Some examples of banned drugs that are perfectly legal- Peptides and diuretics. Caffine was on the banned list until recently. Performance enhacing doesn't equal illegal- Courts couldn't care less, you do your ban and no one else legally cares.

-Peptides can be tested for, it's plain illinformed to say they can't be. They can't be detected with one off urine tests, they can be found with consistent blood tests. Four athletes are currently suspended for peptide use in Australia and none tested positive though.

- A positive test is not needed to be banned, Armstrong and Jones never tested positive they're the two biggest drug cheats of the last 30 years, although Jones' A sample did in 2006 but not her B sample so she was clear. The evidence they had against them was enough to force them to confess, if evidence carried no weight why would it force people to give up their life? They mount huge cases against these people and bring them down. They knew the gig was up and the evidence and testimony against them was huge.

- They were stripped of all titles without a single test being returned positive. In Armstrong's case the evidence and investigation was so overwhelming he was stripped before he confessed.

The investigation is huge and the only people demanding action now or saying it is nothing are on the outer, listen to the people who have some inner briefings like Annesley who still wouldn't be inner sanctum and he uses words like scared after being told some of what is going down. Bennett doesn't need to know what's going on it's none of his business yet. 
professional

professional

Yeah, my constant references to the justice system aren't meant to be taken literally; nobody is going to go to jail or get convicted for PED use. I just mean that any investigation by ASADA or WADA follows the same basis as our legal system, which is that you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt. That can be done with positive tests (which is obviously the most straightforward method) but evidence can be collected in other ways too. 
bandwagon

bandwagon

Also bear in mind a ban can be tested in court, regardless of criminality. 
professional

professional

Yeah, exactly. ASADA might not go through the courts to ban a player but a player can challenge it. Which means if ASADA are going to ban anyone they are going to make sure that their evidence would stand up in a court. I can't see them relying on the testimony of one person (as Nady is suggesting they would). 
nadyone

nadyone

You mean that we have experts who studied law at Uni to learn how to twist it so it suits them.
Witness statements & affidavits can be coached so everything marries up perfectly. Whether it's 2 or 20 different people. It comes down to hearsay & conjecture.

The naive one is you for actually thinking that the legal system is without fault & everything said in court is the Gods honest truth. Well, hat's how you're coming across. 
Morkel

Morkel

What took you so long? 
Marcus1979

Marcus1979

Did you guys hear how Kate Lundy won't be attending the season launch.

Paints every sports player in the country with the same brush and then walks off into the horizon without a sense of remorse. 
professional

professional

Who said it was perfect? I'm not naive about the shortcomings of the legal system.

But I'm also not trying to pre-emptively come up with excuses because I think a player from my team could be busted for PEDs soon. 
IMASHADOW

IMASHADOW

The sun might be shining on Manly as a club but just wait until individual players are named. 
nadyone

nadyone

I highly doubt any players will be named. Let alone any from Manly. 
professional

professional

:lol: 
nadyone

nadyone

It was in the paper roughly 2 weeks ago. I'm not going to hold your hand & find it for you, you're an adult, find it yourself. 
Hancock02

Hancock02

Hell of a rumour regarding Manly going around. 

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