How much is it costing the racing industry to bring out all these overseas horses. Most of them are unknown to me and I couldn't be bothered getting interested in doing the form for all these raiders . I'm sure a lot of punters think the same way and yet these raiders dominate our most famous races. What about Aussie owners and trainers who are struggling...its the last thing they need. How can punters especially the big ones bet with confidence on these unknown quantities (in Aussie conditions). Somewhere along the line the punter has to pay for this fanfare. Does any one actually gain from this fiasco, besides the overseas owners, trainers and jockeys....taking the racing industry's money overseas doesn't help Australian racing....I wonder how Crusher Farley felt half down the straight last Sat......
[The Most With The Coast] You'll find the breeding operations and overseas interests that develop themselves in Australian racing create a global campaign for bloodstock with an evergrowing stability through ease of access the presentation that leads itself into keepsake ideals will continue to grow.... Also the feather in the hat is certainly a vested interest when it comes to pooling the stakes money. Personally I would love to see more sprinters making there way down under for a tilt through European campaigns - not to mention the reciperical extentions led out by recent trainers to incorperate foreign bloodstock into our ranks - it's a not a new thing but it certainly will be a freqency that you will be able to profit from on either side of the fence.
In terms of Australian Bloodstock hitting the market I am lead to believe that interests were developed from the USA to INDIA to promote futures markets in Australian Breeding. take two give one back!
U don't have to bet / tip in every race Coasty! As a punter u should boycott these races! or back an Aussie horse to win? Horses do race all over the world and have to adjust to the climate & conditions where ever they go! I' sure the European's don't like seeing our sprinters when they turn up on there doorstep. But it's the way way it is .(as for Crusher wot do u mean) I wonder how Crusher Farley felt half down the straight last Sat......? Why ???? "In the Sport of Kings" NZ is just another State! ;)
Go Man...thats OK but why should the Australian Racing industry PAY for them to come here....and take our prizemoney overseas. Thats right we subsidise their costs....why not put that money into Australian racing,,,,
@Coasty: Most of the good Australian trained middle distance and staying horses are from Europe now. Manigah, Green Moon, December Draw, Seville, Sneek a Peek, Violici, Glencadam Gold, At First Sight, Midas Touch, Tanby all off the top of my head and I would bet there are just as many that I can't name off the top of my head. Before the European invasion most of our best staying horses were bred in New Zealand and that clouded our defecencies. So is it OK for Australian owners to buy the best overseas middle distance and staying horses to be trained and raced in Australia? How do you feel about Hong Kong owners buying up our best horses to be exported and trained in Hong Kong?
This is a result of Australias stupid breeding program and race program and alocation of prizmoney. Australian owners have wanted a quick return and wanted to win Golden Slippers, Blue Diamonds and Magic Millions The ATC Derby should be worth a lot more than the Golden Slipper, the Slipper should not be worth so much money fullstop. We should have more middle distance and staying races worth good money across the board. We have to make it more attractive for owners to want to own middle distance and staying horses. We have to encourage breeders to want to breed more staying types. Increase the prize money for the Sydney Cup to be more than the Dony and Slipper. Make the BMW formerly Tancred Stakes Sydney's richest race. Revamp the whole Sydney Carnival. Have the QEII before the BMW and make it our Sydney's version of the Cox. Increase the prizmoney for the Sydney Cup to be Sydney's second or third richest race along with the QEII. Increase the brisbane Cup to 3200m again and make it and the Queensland Derby Brisbane's 2 richest races, richer than the Stradbroke. Increase the Adelaid Cup Prizmoney and have that and the South Australian Derby as their richest races. you build it and they will come attitude.
We have build a racing culture aimed towards sprinter and milers. We are the one's who are out of wack with the rest of the world. The Australian racing industy has dug itself into a hole and it is up to them to dig themselves out. Will they though that is the question.
Not to be Coasty - but are you telling me you could not spot form running out of the Geelong Cup last year with Have A Go Otago (DUNADEN) & The year before AMERICAIN ???
Also the influx of perpetual moneys that are created by installing commerical base trading draw on spill over cash allowances into the majority of Australian Trainers & Owners and I would think even the odd punter could come away with a little night out on the town if he played his F.O.R.M cards right on the day....
I see what your saying from point blank range - but as i like to refer to a few others on this site - keep looking at the black dot two feet in front of you....
Without the overseas horses coming over here , races like the Melbourne Cup would go back to being a just a long distance handicap for old hacks like it was before ..... Now the Melbourne Cup and the Australian racing industry in general have been put on the world map thanks to the overseas horses creating so much interest over here ..... Don't forget that Australian sprinters have been going over to the UK to compete in the best races there as well .... It works both ways .
And another thing. The Melbourne Cup is now the worlds number 1 staying race, ironic considering that Australian bred stayers are not even second rate, the New Zealanders are the second rate ones. Trainers and owners all over Europe now want to win this race, even from Japan and Hong Kong too. The Melbourne Cup has increased the profile of Australian racing, put Australian racing on the map. It would be even better if they moved the Cox to Flemmington too. Although the Sydney carnival still lacks any international profile.
Pretty dam good about the HK affair considering they don't breed horses over there I think the more we add to that market the more we can push into Europe. As for Aussie stayers the show and go racing tactics that has made Australian racing what it is is developed from an attention span and recreational avenue not to mention the installation of quick flick racing to revenue turnover. Play the cord you want to play but the Conditions suit Speed ratings for Australian sprinters and the terminal availibility makes for a market to be sold invested in racing circles around the globe. Everybody wants a fast one it's what you do with it that counts!
Yes theoracle , you make good and valid points .... Maybe one way to spruce up the Sydney carnival is to entice overseas horses with a W.F.A event over 2400 metres or longer , this could also be done by inviatation where they offer the best horses around the world the opportunity to compete in the race and maybe othes races around the same time , perhaps the Sydney and Adelaide Cups could be involved too as they have both been pretty ordinary in recent years .... I like your suggestion of moving the Cox Plate over to Flemington as well , i have never been a big fan of Moonee Valley , seeing it more suitable as a training track rather than a racetrack .
@Formulator, If I was running Sydney racing I would have a group 1 WFA series for top prizemoney starting with 1200m, followed by 1400m 2 weeks later, followed by 1600m two weeks later followed by 2000m , followed by 2400m and then the Syd Cup 3200 either handicap or WFA two weeks later. I would run a 3 year old series at the same distance the week before each of the WFA races. The derby horse could back up a week later in the BMW or 3 weeks later in the Sydney. The best horses could run in the suitable races. A horse like Black Caviar could run from 1200 to 1600, even give the 2000 m a try it the trainer wanted to. A horse like Saintly could have ran from 1400m to 3200 if the trainer wanted to etc.
I can give you 740 million reasons why the Internationals are good for Aussie racing. That's roughly how much money the Melbourne Cup generated for the Australian economy last year! How about another 20,000 reasons? That's how many overseas tourists came to see the Cup, and spent good money doing so.
How about 650 million reasons? That's approximately the number of people watching the Cup the world over. Without the 'raiders' and Internationally bred horses, it's safe to say these numbers would be far lower, and so would the sponsorship that keeps the Cup in the top 3 world-wide for prize money.
The Melbourne Cup combines the best of the unique Aussie racing experience (tradition) with the globalization of sports. It's no longer just the 'race that stops a nation', it's a race that attracts the world's population!
our Aussie staying races, tracks, distances are soft compared to some of the tracks in England/Europe. why train/breed a stayer in Australia where there are no real hard tracks to build them up on, thats why our trainers are raiding overseas, they have learnt their lesson. stay up and watch the late night UK staying races one night. they go left/right, up/ down and very rarely round the track. and no , this isn't jumping im talking about..... similar in N.Z except the tracks are smaller. i still think it was the nature of the track the buckled Black Caviar. racing flat tracks all your life to come to this undulating straight with a fair rise to the finish......
@ I actually don't think it cost the Australian horse racing industy anything to bring the overseas horses out here. I was/am under the impression that they pay all of their own expenses. The only expense that I could think of is the Werribee facilities that they use, I don't know if they pay any fees to use that facility or not. They have to pay nomination fees and travel expenses for the horses and travel and accomodation and food expenses for trainers, owners and other staff. It turns out to be a very expensive venture if they don't win prizmoney to fund their trip over here. That is my knowledge of the situation, but I may not be 100% correct. Others will correct me if I am wrong I expect.
We should probably have some kind of stipulaton that at least half of the field of the Melbourne cup and other major races be trained by Australasians.
If we invited horses out here then we would probably have to fund their expenses, like Hong, Kong, Japan and Dubai do to my knowledge.
I too think it is great for Australian racing and I would like the Sydney carnival to gain more of an international profile and flavour. The sydney carnival has such a low profile that when I was talking to someone from Sydney about the Sydney Autum Carnival a few years ago, they looked at with a puzzeled look on their face and asked "Does Sydney have an autum carnival".
I think that's just how it works Coasty. International sports events pay the worlds best appearance fees to play there. Tiger, Federer, etc etc. If Aust horses go overseas they often get shouted the trip. If it is a drawcard horse like Black Caviar they might sweeten the deal further, I don't know. So if the raiders are getting looked after to show up it's not unusual.
Thanks guys,,,,you make a lot of good points. Two things we can pretty much agree on is the prize money of the Golden Slipper (its too much for a 2yo race), and secondly the need to review the distribution of horse racing industry funds ie prizemoney and to grow/preserve the racing industry. Shame we punters don't have any (verbal) input to the Racing Industry. I'm not going to mention the Punters Union again but we need to be represented at the ATC (or somewhere) where we can air our (mainly good) suggestions.